Nationals Baseball: Soriano???!?!?!!

Tuesday, January 15, 2013

Soriano???!?!?!!

ELVENTY!?

Is a secondary deal is coming and that most likely involves Storen?  Storen and Morse and Goodwin for Price? Or is this just making the bullpen a big strength?

Quick Update

As a Yankee fan I'll tell you that Soriano spent 2011 in the 8th inning role, pitched poorly and constantly blamed it on the fact that he wasn't closing.  So let's think of some facts here
  • Rizzo doesn't like overpaying
  • Rizzo doesn't like overpaying even a little bit for relief pitchers
  • Rizzo likes having those draft picks
  • Rizzo wants only great clubhouse guys
Why is Soriano here then? If he's not closing it makes little sense to me as a "Rizzo move".  Kilgore mentioned that Lerner might have been involved.  Could he have pressed the issue after last year's meltdown (that was really more the fault of Davey using Jackson unecessarily and letting Storen pitch to Kozma)?  I guess but Rizzo to me doesn't seem the type that would go along with it.  He's been all Dalton ("my way or the highway") since Day 1.  Was he simply overruled?

If it is a Rizzo move then it's about dealing Storen. HAS to be. Storen is bringing back more in a trade than Clippard, occupies the role Soriano wants. If someone told Rizzo, "If you want X, we want Storen" he might have seen there was a very good closer available still and thought he could maintain the pen after trading Drew if he signed Rafeal.  That makes more sense to me.

Ponder, Muse, Question....

34 comments:

bdrube said...

I have to admit, I'm surprised given that it means the Nats will have to give up their 1st round pick. With this move, Rizzo really is going "all in" for the next two years.

You might well be correct about your proposed trade package for Price. With Detwler moving to the pen, that takes care of the need for a LH reliever...and WOW, what a rotation that would be.

Ficta said...

I can see the thinking on the 1st round pick. It's only 29th vs 32nd. Does that matter a lot?

Harper said...

I'm just making stuff up but as I tweeted - Soriano did nothing but complain about pitching the 8th when he was with the Yanks (and he let it show in his stats) I can't see him going to another situation where he's the set-up man. Just can't. That means Storen must go and with Morse also needing to go... that creates more intersting trade possibilities given Storen's youth and contract.

Harper said...

ficta - I'm not a draft expert but I believe the Nats lose their first round pick (and the $ slotted for him) and that's it. There first pick next year will be the 58th or whatever.

bdrube said...

I was just reading the comments under Kilgore's column and posted the idea of this being followed blockbuster trade involving Morse, Storen and prospects for another front line starting pitcher and Detwiler moving back to the pen. A lot of the commenters were horrified by the idea, saying that Det's too good for the pen and that you can't deplete the farm system further and blah, blah, blah.

With this signing, Rizzo has signalled that he intends to put not just a contender, but a World Series FAVORITE on the field for the next two to three years. And we fans should embrace the idea because it sure does beat the alternative as we lived it from 2005-2011.

Harper said...

bdrube - Det could be in the trade as well (though him as a LH in the pen would solve that issue and he did take to it quite well)

Whenever you get to point A with a team there's a natural tendency to assume EVERYONE on that team was a necessary component in exactly their role that year. Don't fix what isn't broke, etc. etc.

Froggy said...

Why does it have to be either Storen or Soriano as the closer again?

Regardless, I'll bite...who do we get (or what do we need) for a Storen/Morse deal?

cass said...

What?!!!

1. That's a lot of money for a reliever! Most big contracts for relievers turn out awful. Unless the reliever is named "Mariano Rivera". This guy is not named "Mariano Rivera".

2. Kilgore's post says that the owners were heavily involved. Is this a case of the Lerners overruling Rizzo because they don't trust Storen after one single inning? They do know that Mariano Rivera, the undisputed greatest reliever in history and all-time Yankee great, is the same guy who blew the save that allowed the Red Sox to win their first World Series in a century, right? Ie, judging a pitcher based on one inning, no matter how important that inning was, is as stupid as anything Snyder or Angelos has ever done?

3. We had $28-42 million for this but we couldn't sign ______?!!!

I'm just kind of confused.

Clip&Store said...

Why trade Storen? We need all the bullpen we can get. At least he will be cheaper as an 8th inning guy to keep

bdrube said...

On Detwiler - I read a comment from one of the national MLB writers the other day (don't recall which one, darn it) saying that he thought Detwiler would be a better reliever than a starter in the long run.

Strasburger said...

If they get rid of Storen. I will cry.

blovy8 said...

After my initial shock, I will say that it is just money and nothing actually needs to be done. You'd have to believe that as top-heavy as the 40-man roster is, they'd want some ballast below, but if we've all been bitching about the club not spending money for years, they've made up for it the last few. There's really no reason they can't keep the roster as it is.

blovy8 said...

I have to admit, I'm kind of hoping for a Cano deal with the Yankees involving Clippard and Espinosa.

blovy8 said...

Oh, and Morse.

blovy8 said...

The Yanks would throw back a LH reliever too.

BangZoom said...

You are looking at the wrong players.

this deal isn't about Storen, Clippard or Morse.

It's about Strasburg and Harper.

Who are represented by . . . Soriano's agent Scott Boras.

Rizzo just scratched Boras' back by bailing him out on Soriano now when the Stars and Harper extensions come up . . . he better get something back.

michael k said...

So far, this is awful.

I say so far because there might be a trade possibility with Morse + Storen (or something similar) that was just too good for Rizzo to pass up.

But until that happens, this is awful. First bad move Nats have made since I started following in 2010 (Werth contract debatable), and it's a doozy. Good thing it's only for 2 years.

Harper said...

Froggy - You mean why not both? It could be but that's kind of strange situation, especially with two righties. One is going to be the primary, when they mention Davey's "A" and "B" guys it really is A and B, not A1 and A2.

Storen and Morse - not sure. Not quite enough to get a price but easily more than enough for a McGee....

cass - 1. I KNOW! 2. If there's no deal then yes, this was Lerner forcing something kind of dumb on the Nats (but still totally workable - too many good arms isn't a "problem") 3. Greinke. Fielder. OK they are a bunch more but still...

C&S - No NEED to but Clippard is pretty good as the 8th and Stammen and Mattheus were both solid enough to use more. So you might deal him, lose little, but get back a lot.

bdrube - He did look good in relief (though I'd first see if I could deal him as a starter to be - there's more value there)

Strasburger - Hush now don't you cry, wipe away the teardrop from your eye. Ummm... it'll be all right baseball wise, if that matters to you.

Blovy8 - you're right in that nothing HAS to be done. This isn't even a Morse situation where you don't have a defined role for him and he costs a bunch. You can use Storen AND Soriano all the time. It's just a lot for an 8th inning guy so the mind wanders

As for a Cano deal... maybe Morse, Storen and Espy... maybe. It would take Rendon I think. Nats pitching prospects are now ALL ?s and the Yanks have good OF prospects so Goodwin is of less value to them.

(I also wouldn't do the above deal if I were the Nats.)

Harper said...

BZ - people keep saying that and all we've seen are the Nats paying top dollar for Boras clients and NOT getting Fielder....

mk - not awful. An huge uneeded overpay? Sure. But if you think of it on purely a talent level it just makes the pen better.

BangZoom said...

they didn't need to get Fielder (or Texeria for that matter) to help Boras, they just needed to create a market.

They DID get Werth and they really overpaid.

$14m a year for a reliever for a team that doesn't need him means a lot more than just blowing $14m a year on a reliever.

On an unrelated note, if Ted Lerner was behind this and he or anyone in the organization complains about payroll restrictions for the next two years then F*%^ You, you lying cheapskate bastards

blovy8 said...

Yeah, squeezing LaRoche really looks like a dick move now.

I don't get this at all. Why not sign Lohse for two years or Marcum for a year and an option and an optinn and move Detwiler to the pen?

blovy8 said...

Well, whatever the hell I typed, I don't think Boras even gives his mom a discount.

And yes, I am leaving out that punchline.

Donald said...

As much as Davey talks about an A and B pen, I agree with Harper that Davey likes his relievers to know their roles and that means Soriano is the primary closer. Plus, as much as the Nats probably hope he doesn't meet the vesting option for 2015, if they explicitly make him share closing duties, I think he'll bitch. So it does seem like this is a precursor to a Storen, Morse deal, but for what? A lot of folks have talked about Price, but if they were going to do that, would Haren have made sense? Why not save the $13m there and keep Det as #5.

Cano is interesting but he's only under contract for 1 more year. I can't see sending Espy, Clippard and Morse to the Yanks for a 1 year rental.

Really, the only hole the Nats had was in the bullpen, so I have no idea what to make of this.

notBobby said...

For me the biggest part of this is it seemingly being Lerner doing the deal and not RIzzo. Lerner has so far seemed to let Rizzo make the team how he sees fit and just cut the check. Is Rizzo losing some of his pull after the Strasburg affair all last season? I really hope not because I think Rizzo has done a very good job so far.

Anonymous said...

wins become very very costly once you get past the 90 win threshhold. Lets hope that the over pay was used for 3-4 more wins here and 1 or 2 in the playoffs.

Ben said...

Hate the deal ... love what it says about future spending on the team though.

And in all not seriousness, I think we are being way to shallow with our conspiracy theories, this is clearly Ted Lerner setting a ridiculous market price for mediocre relievers in order to trick the Dodgers into another episode of "Hey, WE are suppose to be the ones massively over-paying, here's 50 mil Matt Capps!", all because Magic slept with his wife in the 80's.

There, now this move makes sense.

Froggy said...

When you got his kind of money, I can imagine every now and then Ted Lerner wants to re-send the message that he can do whatever he wants with his team.

Ben, I like the Magic Johnson connection though. Bwwwhaaaaa....

Froggy said...

...or was that Mark Lerner?

Anonymous said...

great move, the Nats had Jordan Zimmerman and Edwin Jackson pitch the 7th inning in games 4 and 5 of the playoffs. They needed more depth and anyone who doesnt see this hasnt been watching this team.

Anonymous said...

This team is stacked!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

This better not be a "great move". I had a chat with a colleague (misguided Yankees fan from...well, he's 15 years younger than me so barely remembers the bad days) but he believes some sort of Cano deal isn't out of the realm. I'd give Espi, Rendon, and Storen for Cano, assuming there was a 3 year extension added in. The Yanks need the replacement 2b, a replacement for ARod in a year and a backup for Mariano. 3 guys who view themselves as "da man" to close games is a problem and none of them have shown any inclination otherwise.

Chaos

DezoPenguin said...

Well, one thing's for certain, which is that Harper's right, Soriano is going to close. Which isn't a bad thing, as he's a very good closer. But you don't give a relief pitcher fourteen million dollars per year to pitch anything but the highest leverage innings (well, leaving aside the reality that the most important or difficult out to get might come in the sixth or seventh inning). So he's going to close. Storen and Clippard will fight over the eighth inning if we keep them both.

I don't necessarily see a trade coming, in that the team is now better than it was before adding Soriano to the bullpen. The 'pen now has Soriano, Storen, Clippard, Stammen, Mattheus, Garcia, and Duke. That's pretty darned good except for the lack of left-handers. But it's also a bunch of righties that don't get shelled by lefties (unlike, say, how Mike Gonzalez got killed by righties), so the fractional loss in not being able to play lefty/righty games may be outweighed by the sheer talent of the guys on the mound.

On the other hand, a trade could happen. The Nats now have Morse, Storen, a giant wad of org depth in backup catchers, and a few prospects that could be moved. If we get a pitcher, Detweiler can go to the 'pen and be another lefty (and, perhaps more importantly, be an insurance policy against injury or if Haren can't recover his form) or he can be part of the trade. And if we can upgrade in the field, then guys like Espi or Span or Werth (hey, the Jays moved Wells!) or even Ian might get tossed in.

Whatever else you can say about this, the owner opened his wallet and signed a good player that makes the team better as-is and increases possible trade flexibility for more moves, and on only a two-year deal so even if Soriano gets hurt or pitches like 2011 then we won't be sunk forever.

(And BangZoom kind of has a point, too--Rizzo's seemingly managed to forge some kind of relationship with Boras; sure, they get paid, but except for Werth's contract they weren't awful deals and that one had a huge "We're a really sucky team and we're giving notice that we're not gonna be that way any more now that we have an owner!" premium built in.)

necmettin karadağlı said...

İç Giyim ve iç çamaşırı sektöründe faaliyet gösteren firmamızda bütün Fantezi İç Giyim Modelleri ini bulabilir ve kapıda ödeme seçeneği ile teslim alırken ödemesini yapabilirsiniz.Gizlilik temel prensibimizdir kargolarımız kapalı kutularda kozmetik ürün olarak taşınır ve siparişleriniz sadece isme teslim edilir.
Firmamız 7/24 hizmet vermektedir ve bütün iller ile kıbrıs’ a ürün gönderimi yapılmaktadır.

Anonymous said...

It's going to be ending of mine day, except before end I am reading this enormous post to increase my know-how.

Feel free to visit my web page: Air Jordan Pas Cher